stuff about stuff

[domarzione]

I know that, according to the 'how to return to DW blogging' manual going around, I am not supposed to confuse readers by bringing up multiple topics, but you are all wise and intelligent souls who are fully aware that I will think no less of you for choosing to reply to one (or more) topic and ignoring the rest. Also, I'm contrary and don't take direction well and never read the manual first. 


* Over on tumblr, I reposted a link to this hilarious article about an utterly insane movie and I think y'all should read about it, too: An Important Discussion About ‘Pottersville,’ The Weirdest Christmas Movie Ever. Because: 

 Pottersville is a shockingly star-studded movie about a man who saves Christmas by pretending to be Bigfoot after finding out his beloved wife is a furry.

* Uproxx's discussions on batshit movies are generally worth reading, evidence the second: An Important Discussion About John Travolta’s Speedboat Movie, ‘Speed Kills’ . 


* On a completely different note... I debated not posting this link because I try to keep politics out of my fannish space and I have less than zero interest in discussing it with anyone. But I also do believe that it's worth reading because it does provoke thought. Once upon a time, I canceled my The Atlantic subscription because of Andrew Sullivan's idiotic conspiracy theories about Sarah Palin's baby, so he always gets a big asterisk from me. And yet. Note that this is from the same magazine that posted the Jonas Brothers stanning earlier in the week. 


* I got most of the way through Chanukah before I remembered (a) that I wrote Chanukah fic and (b) there is no law about reminding folks about it. It's Peggy Carter and the SSR, ftr. 


* While on the topic of the MCU: there has been discussion about the moment in the Avengers: Endgame trailer that shows the compass with Peggy's picture in it, last seen on the control panel of the Valkyrie as it went into the North Sea in the first CA movie. It would seem to be a giant flaming callback to the first time Steve attempted suicide for the good of the many and the indication that he is about to do it again at that moment, but I would like to suggest that it is not and is instead a giant red herring. Which does not mean that Steve is not gonna die by the end of the movie, but more that it's not then and not there. My reasons: (1) Marvel has never, ever played the teasers and trailers so straightforwardly and, in fact, they do enjoy throwing in comics and movie callbacks that are completely bait-y to throw everyone off. They thrill to it. (2) Skip ahead to the 1:39 mark, right after Clint's debut as Ronin, which is when the compass appears. Steve and Natasha... and then there's a cut to the hand with the watch. It's not from the same scene, or it's from a different part of the same scene, or it's not Steve's hand at all. There's a limited number of other people whose hand it could be if you count the white dudes with regular left arms who'd be wearing fingerless tactical gloves, I know. But, but...  (3) The picture of Peggy in that compass is made of newsprint. It went into the water in 1945. It's looking awfully good considering. I know Marvel is shit with prop details, so this might be yet another oversight on the long list, but.... maybe it's not. 


* Is there anything else we should be talking about? I leave it up to you. 

Comments

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

We've seen the compass and picture again before, in The Winter Soldier, and there is not any way (other than Comic Physics) I can see it clear that's original. Even if the compass somehow (because I'm not a scholar of Arctic weather, ocean archaeology or, really, lab sciences) managed, the picture itself was toast.

But then, the uniform Cap stole from the Museum either is a) a spare b) a mock up c) Howard being extra because d) the one he went down with the plane in got cut up and if SHIELD didn't medical waste it there is a conservation scientist having very difficult times with it and it will never be exhibited. They are going on about fiber contamination as a special 'that's just great' because adding that didn't save a life.

[domarzione]

I am pretty darned sure that the Smithsonian version of the suit is just a mockup made for the exhibit and not even a faithful mockup, just some fabric that looked enough like it. Because even a spare of the original would have shown some age and wear (he would have worn it occasionally) and would have had some kind of perforation protection, if not outright bulletproofing. Steve grabbed the one out of the museum for what it looked like -- familiar to Bucky -- and not for any kind of functionality.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

would have had some kind of perforation protection, if not outright bulletproofing.

That's a good point. At some moment I'm going have to have Sam and Barnes piece things together and them tag team Talk to Steve about Being a Dumbass.

[domarzione]

I'm pretty sure they both understand the futility of the lecture both in general and in the specifics of what he'd do for either of them. Perhaps a mutual pact of just overriding Steve's lack of self preservation and taking corrective measures on their own. :)

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

I suppose.

But boy is Sam going to need someone to talk to about Steve. Possibly Natasha, but when she's got cookies from Little Odessa.

[kore]

Yeah, that's not the last time we see the compass -- Steve looks at it watching Peggy's interview in TWS. I do think we're meant to think it's the same one, however physically improbable that is, because Comics Movie Magic. And yeah, that clearly can't be the showgirl Cap suit that he rescued Bucky in and crashed in on display, but you obviously wouldn't have the original suit out in the open like that anyway. Steve is a creature of symbols, Marvel loves symbols and will go for Symbolic over Realism every time.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Well, the showgirl suit isn't the one he crashed in, I'm pretty sure he was in his usual 'working suit' when he caught the plane. And yeah, even his Bond Tour suit would be a serious bit of conservation work, though I've not been to the First Lady Hall (I've never gotten out to the East Coast.)

But yeah, there are Continuity Is Not Our Business moments all through things.

[kore]

Duh, right! There's the showgirl suit (one he rescues Bucky in), the "let's butch this up" look marching back with the leather combat jacket, pants, and boots, and the one Howard designs with the shield that he gets frozen in, and he steals that one from the museum (where it's with the original showgirl shield). I conflated them, LOL. -- Wait, apparently the museum "Howard" suit has A THIRD RED STRIPE DOWN THE ABDOMEN, so this could solve the problem of replicas!....no not really probably. It is slightly different though, for some weird reason.

I always forget that the "TWS stealth suit" is actually issued by SHIELD while he's part of that STRIKE team full of guys who try to take him down in the elevator. That's....really kinda depressing.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

That's why the stealth suit he's been running about in since post-Iron Man 4 is missing all its insignia, because who knows what trackers were embedded and I think they reacted to polarized light or something.

Well, Steve did butch up the tour suit before trying to walk to Bucky. Still want to know where he was carrying the radio when it took a bullet to the corner.

[princessofgeeks]

Rock on with your bad self and your multi subject postings.

All I can say about Avengers Endgame is that it is a TIME TRAVEL PLOT and therefore all bets are off.

I'll watch it regardless but my favorite movies in this verse have already been made, except perhaps for the Bucky and Sam roadtrip miniseries that I understand is in production. Now I just have to figure out where to see it.

[domarzione]

Yes. Time travel and Who Knows.

The Sam and Bucky miniseries is not even in pre-production. It's an idea they are floating for when Disney gets its own streaming network. The Loki one seems to be definitely happening, but the Scarlet Witch and Sam&Bucky ones are essentially rumors at this stage.

[princessofgeeks]

I live in hope. Also for the rumors of a Black Widow movie.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

It's going to be increasingly easier for me to borrow the comics in print from the library than it will be for me to see new live action content. If my understanding is correct, maybe by 2030 I'll get to see Luke Cage.

[alphaflyer]

That's my theory. The locket/compass is an anchor point, and one where Steve knows he can lay his hand on an infinity stone. (Of course they'd need the time stone first, so ... whatever.) Or maybe he has the Time Stone and is flirting with just going back and ignoring this entire hellhole of a time line so he can live happily with Peggy and sire baby boomers. Of course being Steve, he won't. But he could, and therein lies yet Another Heroic Sacrifice.

I'll shut up now...

[kore]

Marvel props, LOL -- they get Bucky Barnes's birthday wrong twice on the same exhibit in TWS, IIRC. The picture of Peggy was newsprint with no apparent covering over it in TFA -- she sees him looking at it in the newsreel scene -- it survived the entire war, it apparently survived Steve's crash, and we saw it looking exactly the same in TWS (when Steve is looking at it watching Peggy's interview, a nice mirroring). There are also at least two different prop versions, but we're clearly meant to think it's the same compass. I think it's just Marvel Prop Fuckery.


there's a cut to the hand with the watch. It's not from the same scene, or it's from a different part of the same scene, or it's not Steve's hand at all. There's a limited number of other people whose hand it could be if you count the white dudes with regular left arms who'd be wearing fingerless tactical gloves, I know. But, but...

I highly doubt that VO, that scene with Steve and Nat, and Steve preparing to Give His All are all in that same sequence, yeah. But in that little snippet, the shot of that gloved hand holding the compass looks like Steve's glove to me, not Nat's. Nat seems to be wearing her black suit from Infinity War. Steve is wearing his stealth suit from TWS. Both of those outfits have fingerless gloves, but Nat's are black, smoother and not detailed. Steve's gloves have brown leather detailing (or whatever the term is) that's stitched over the blue fabric. To me the glove on the hand that's holding the compass has that brown detailing. It's not Nat's.

(In terms of sheer proportions, Chris Evans is six feet. ScarJo is about five-two. I think the difference in their hands would be apparent.)

Cap's gloves compared with the compass shot

The TWS stealth suit with a good view of the gloves

Replication of the stealth suit as a toy

Nat's Infinity War outfit

Two more views of Nat's gloves: 1, 2 They appear to have some kind of texturing on the palm and the back of the hand and maybe the backs of the fingers (it looks visually similar to her gauntlets maybe), but I don't see anything like that different-coloured detailing.

So I sort of half agree with you? I don't think that "scene" is going to play out in the movie (the "scene" of Tony is equally assembled: some of that monologue sounds dubbed over, he goes from wearing a tank the not-reactor shows through to a shirt with longer sleeves that doesn't cover it, &c &c). "We lost friends...." is clearly a Big Push type speech, and "This is gonna work" might be different too because her collar looks unsnapped. But I think that's Steve looking at Peggy's picture in his compass and it's going to be a definite callback in the film.

Or who knows, maybe Nat's or Steve's gloves are different! and this is all hooey. Cap looking at Peggy's picture has been a really big repeated character moment for him, though. I can't see them giving it to someone else.

[domarzione]

I appreciate the work you put in, but I never said or implied that it was Nat's hand. It's clearly a man's hand, so it's Steve's or Quill's or someone else White Dude Not Bucky, which is not likely but a possibility.

[kore]

Quill got snapped. -- And I do think the biggest argument against it being anyone else is we've seen Steve looking at Peggy's picture as a big character moment for him repeatedly, and it's echoed with Peggy looking at his picture in TFA and her series. It doesn't make sense that it would go to another character. Do you think that shot of the glove on the hand holding the compass doesn't look like the one from Steve's TWS stealth suit that he's wearing in the cut immediately before that?

[domarzione]

Time travel movie. Doesn't matter who got snapped when we have no context.

Do I think it's anyone but Steve? Likely no. But it's a possibility and there is literally no way anyone save the Russo Brothers can prove or disprove at this point. I'm not ruling anything out. I'm having fun and not looking to have a deep forensic dive into the exact percentages of the possibility it's Bucky with his arm restored or Quill or anyone else not Steve. It's probably Steve.

[kore]

My apologies, I didn't mean to be rude, and certainly not to spoil anyone's fun.

[domarzione]

You were neither rude nor buzzkill. Just enthusiastic, which is not anything I'd ever want to smother in anyone. :)

[kore]

(Argh, I didn't see the notif for this.) If I am totes wrong and that is, say, anyone else's hand, I will eat a whole plate of Asgardian crow! Raven? Mystical raven.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

It could even be a pre-Plane Steve!

Or, Bucky before falling from the Train!

Time travel.

[mirabile]

I was so pleased to see you pop up again! But oh dear, why did you remind me of that Sarah Palin's baby non-scandal. I'm not of fan of hers by any means, but golly, that was just bonkers.

I haven't seen Infinity War yet because I wanted to wait until the second part was released -- all my friends were so unhappy after seeing IW. Life is depressing enough; I don't need my fannish adventures to add to the gloom.

[domarzione]

I am glad to be back and hope to have lots of talking-with instead of the whatever-it-is pictionary over at Tumblr. Which I do enjoy, but gosh do I miss conversations. I also miss the people -- *eyes* -- who I left behind.

Sullivan gets an asterisk and I have to explain why. Also, I'm still peeved about it because I was such a fan of his for a long time at that point. And I remember the sigh of the Atlantic customer service rep when I told her why I was canceling and her telling me that I was, by far, not the only one.

I was disappointed by IW, not unhappy. It's all Tony all the time, which is never my favorite thing in a group movie, and the trailer looks to be much the same. (Steve got literally six minutes in IW.) I didn't understand the shock or grief others experienced because, um, several of the characters who "perished" had movies with release dates on the calendar, so they weren't staying dead and I'm too much of a comics person to get wound up about stuff like that anymore. I had a bit of a different reaction to the big Gamora-Thanos scene than most because, well, I come out of a background that's the same tune in a different key and I appreciated how it worked in a way happy-childhood people do not. Overall, I think the Russo Brothers did a pretty excellent job balancing the 50% of the movie that wasn't Tony among the gazillion characters they had to incorporate -- it was a crossover that worked in that sense.

[mirabile]

Steve got six minutes in IW???? Oh dear. Oh dear. Well, a little closer to the release of End Game and I'll watch it, so thank you for the heads up.

SIX MINUTES. Oy.

[kore]

Someone added up all the speaking time in IW and it went something like -- Thanos, Tony, Thor, and then everyone else, and everyone else had five minutes or less.

[ravurian]

Oh, dude, I have nothing really to contribute to the discussion about the new Avengers trailer because I'm still stuck on the stupidity of Thanos' plan from the most recent movie. I want him to publish his methodology! Taking a 50% chunk out of every species is such a dumb move, especially considering he's already culled a whole load of them. What if, as with humanity, more than 50% of the population is female? Might there suddenly just be no mens? (This may be the opposite of a problem if there are still sperm banks, but.) What if there are species already on the brink of extinction? Wiping out half of them could effectively get rid of 100% of them. How does he adjust for an ageing or infertile population? How does this make sense as a long-term strategy in any case, since a lack of competition for resources always triggers a population boom, causing the problem to recur in a short span of time? Why wouldn't you tinker with fertility or longevity or, IDK, just make everyone 6 inches tall but leave everything else normal-sized?

This brought to you by the Committee for Why Is This So Poorly Written Do Better Please Marvel.

[domarzione]

Well, you lose all the menfolk and you get Brian Vaughan's Y:the Last Man series, which was actually pretty good. But, yes, half of the living creatures in the galaxy is a recipe for galactic apocalypse and it was not thought through by anyone. They already changed enough of the original Infinity Gauntlet story -- he does it for love of Death (not the Gaiman version) and while turning it into a warped benevolence makes more sense... yeah.

But we can't expect Marvel to start thinking things through ten years in when they've had plenty of success not doing so.

[kore]

I was really hoping they would reprise the Lady Death story from the comics with MCU Hela....alas.